Bloggers of various political stripes debate about the role of immigration in this year's midterm elections. OTIS HART moderates the latest installment of an asap weekly series.
(AP Illustration/Jacky Myint)
Judd Legum, research director at the Center for American Progress and the editor of ThinkProgress.org. (AP Photo/HO/American Progress)
Edward Morrissey of the conservative blog Captain's Quarters. (AP Photo/Courtesy of Captain's Quarters)
Nick Gillespie, editor-in-chief of the Libertarian journal magazine Reason and blogger at Hit and Run. (AP Photo/HO/Courtesy of Reason)
The midterm elections are less than a month away. Which hot-button issues could shape next year's Congress?
asap has brought together the voices of three bloggers from across the political spectrum, giving them an opportunity to sound off, in IM chats, on a major election issue each Thursday until Election Day.
In the first installment, they discussed ethics. This week, they're tackling the role of immigration in campaign 2006.
Let's meet our panelists again:
-- Judd Legum, editor of ThinkProgress.org, a progressive blog run by the Center for American Progress in Washington
-- Edward Morrissey, who runs the conservative Captain's Quarters blog
-- Nick Gillespie, editor-in-chief of the libertarian journal Reason and blogger on the publication's Web site, Hit and Run
Note from the editor: In some cases, comments that participants sent at the same time have been reordered to make more logical sense. Also note that capitalization and punctuation of the original chat have been preserved. And in order to preserve the participants' privacy, their screen names have been replaced with ... their actual names.
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asap: Our second topic leading up to Nov. 7 is immigration.
asap: Do you think there should be a border fence dividing the U.S. and Mexico?
Nick Gillespie: absolutely not.
Nick Gillespie: one of the great moments of the 20th century was when the berlin wall fell...
Nick Gillespie: one of the most disturbing of the current century -- a century of globalization and increasing integration of the world -- is a fixation on keeping mexicans out of america.
Nick Gillespie: if we're concerned about folks sneaking across the southern border, legalize immigration in a big way; it's easier to regulate...
Nick Gillespie: business that's in the open rather than in the shadows.
Edward Morrissey:I do. If we want to enforce our immigration law, obviously we need to stop the easy access to border violations ...
Edward Morrissey: and that requires a barrier or a deployment of many thousands of border guards....
Edward Morrissey: and let's remember that the Berlin Wall intended to keep people penned up in a police state. It's not comparable at all.
Nick Gillespie: the east germans, who put the wall up, said it was to keep people out, not keep people in.
Edward Morrissey: Nick, come on, you believe that?
"If we want to enforce our immigration law, obviously we need to stop the easy access to border violations ... and that requires a barrier or a deployment of many thousands of border guards."
-- Edward Morrissey
Nick Gillespie: if we're willing to tolerate the free flow of goods from mexico, we should be willing to tolerate the free flow of people. on this, the European Union is doing things right.
Judd Legum: I really think the wall issue is a way for people to avoid tackling the real question.
Judd Legum: Which is how do we deal with the undocumented immigrants...
Judd Legum: building a wall will do very little to keep new people from coming in and nothing with the 12 million people or so who are already here.
Judd Legum: It's a totally overblown issue.
Edward Morrissey: I agree with Judd that we still have to deal with the illegal immigrants already inside the US ...
Edward Morrissey: that hasn't gone away.
Nick Gillespie: here's the easiest way to deal with them: make them legal.
asap: Should any illegal immigrants have an opportunity for citizenship?
Edward Morrissey: I can see my way clear to that, depending on whether they have criminal records (outside of the illegal entry) ...
Edward Morrissey: as long as we have secured the border and resolved most of the illegal inflow.
Nick Gillespie: immigration policy in american has been, by turns, racist and arbitrary. i think immigrants who can show they are not violent criminals should be given the ability to work and reside here legally.
Judd Legum: I think this is in our interest. There are millions of law-abiding, gainfully employed people in the United States. They came because there are businesses who will employ them. Kicking them all out is: 1) a fantasy, 2) bad policy.
"There are millions of law-abiding, gainfully employed people in the United States. They came because there are businesses who will employ them. Kicking them all out is: 1) a fantasy, 2) bad policy."
-- Judd Legum
Nick Gillespie: one thing worth realizing: unless we clamp down in a way that no one wants, we won't be able to shut off the flow of illegal immigrants.
Edward Morrissey: I would say residency first, then citizenship after a time, if they pay back taxes and a fine for the illegal entry.
Edward Morrissey: I agree with Judd again -- mass deportations are a fantasy.
asap: Many say President Bush has attempted to find a middle ground on immigration. Has he succeeded?
Nick Gillespie: i think he has punted on the issue.
Nick Gillespie: which is a shame because when he became president it seemed like he would be more open to liberalizing immigration.
Nick Gillespie: he has refused to lead and has instead pushed bogus "militarization" of the border sort of programs.
Nick Gillespie: and caved to restrictionists.
Judd Legum: No. I'm someone who generally spends a lot of time criticizing President Bush. But I think he has immigration basically right...
Judd Legum: At the same time, he's completely failed in getting that policy enacted, which shows a real weakness of his Presidency. He's really not able to move Congress ... he can only cater to them ...
Edward Morrissey: I think he tried, and I think he believes in a middle ground on immigration, but he's hampered by the failure of Congress to tackle border security 20 years ago.
Edward Morrissey: after the last time we legalized everyone.
Nick Gillespie: but it's not about the border. more than half of illegals don't cross the southern border --
Nick Gillespie: they come into the country via other ways and stay.
Edward Morrissey: That's fine, but the southern border is at least half of the problem, and a good place to start.
Nick Gillespie: if you are serious about rooting out illegals, then you've got to start pushing national i.d. cards, draconian business measures, etc...
Edward Morrissey: Not if you stop them before they get into the country. It's the lack of enforcement on the front end that puts pressure for those solutions.
Nick Gillespie: what precisely is the problem?
Nick Gillespie: areas thick with illegals have low unemployment and low crime. they are rich in services and workers...
Nick Gillespie: here's where bush failed on the immigration issue: he allowed it to be defined as a problem. immigration is a great success in today's america.
Edward Morrissey: Really? I lived in Southern California most of my life, and I can tell you that the low-crime argument doesn't work there.
Judd Legum: I agree with Nick in one sense, the present level of immigrations is not the massive problem so many people want it to be.
Judd Legum:On the other hand, I don't think it's a bad idea to create a system where we can make sure most people are obeying the law...
Judd Legum: I think that's good for the country and the immigrant community in particular.
Nick Gillespie: tony snow -- before he became bush's press secretary -- noted in a column we republished in reason...
Nick Gillespie: that "total crime and property crime in california are half of what they were in 1980; violent crime has fallen by more than a third. The state's hispanic population during that time increased 120 percent."
Edward Morrissey: They've also enacted much tougher crime legislation since 1980, like three-strikes and mandatory sentencing. It's not due to illegal immigration.
asap: How does immigration relate to the war on terror?
Nick Gillespie: it's a major, major non sequitur -- and a powerful one.
Nick Gillespie: why are we talking about militarizing the mexican border when the 9/11 hijackers flew first class?
Judd Legum: If you want to address immigration in a way that relates to the war on terror, we've been focusing on the wrong border. Terrorists are trying to come in through Canada, not Mexico.
"Why are we talking about militarizing the Mexican border when the 9/11 hijackers flew first class?"
-- Nick Gillespie
Nick Gillespie: long-standing immigration restrictionists such as tom tancredo of colorado have seized on insecurity about terrorism to really push an anti-immigration agenda.
Nick Gillespie: but the two issues have nothing to do with one another.
Edward Morrissey: I believe it's an issue, and not the only one, but significant. The 9/11 Commission certainly thought they were linked ...
Edward Morrissey: it's an open door during a time when we have terrorists trying to gain access to the country.
Judd Legum: Well, there were some people involved in 9/11 who had overstayed their visas, I believe.
Nick Gillespie: look, the tracking of terrorists is something that's going to be done by intelligence agencies, and the like. not immigration cops.
asap: Which party has the upper hand right now on immigration issues?
Judd Legum: I think President Bush wanted to run on it this cycle, which is why he is abandoning his actual policy and signing a border only bill when he said that was the wrong approach.
Nick Gillespie: a fascinating thing about immigration is that it splits the dems and republicans equally...
Nick Gillespie: barbara boxer and dianne feinstein, the two california senators, have voted differently on legislation in the senate. lamar alexander of tenn. and sam brownback of kansas are split too.
Edward Morrissey: I guess that question depends on one's perspective on it ...
Edward Morrissey: I'd say that Democrats have credibility with legalization advocates, and the GOP has credibility with enforcement, but the levels vary.
Edward Morrissey: nick's got a good point -- it might be one of the few issues where party lines really blur.
Nick Gillespie: if immigration is viewed as a national security issue, then the advantage goes to the Reps. if it's seen as a humanitarian issue, i think the advantage goes to the dems because they have fewer nasty restrictionists in their ranks.
Nick Gillespie: ...people like Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), who wants to electrify the border and has likened immigrants to "livestock."
Judd Legum: There is a group of people who feel that this is, by far, the most important issue.
Judd Legum: This is based, mostly, on fear...
Judd Legum: And there is a whole cottage industry of people who want to exploit that fear for partisan purposes. Pat Buchanan is the leader of that group...
Judd Legum: I actually read his entire book...
Edward Morrissey: you're a braver man than I, Judd.
Judd Legum: It's amazing that positions which are, by all accounts, basically racist can be treated by the media as one side of the debate...
Judd Legum: and a legitimate, basically mainstream perspective.
Nick Gillespie: that is the history of the immigration debate in america.
Nick Gillespie: that certain "races" can be assimilated and others can't.
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Otis Hart is an asap reporter based in New York.
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